People in Glass Houses....

Bitter atheist vs atheist feuds are common. 

In this post evangelical atheist PZ Myers quotes Baptist Christian Miguel De La Torre (an evangelical himself it seems) who denounces the degeneration of Christianity at the hands of US Christians. De La Torre catalogs the sins of American Evangelicalism: Viz: Defending a child molester, prosperity gospel, belief that God unleashes natural disasters against those soft on homosexuality, shielding a sexual predator and racist, supporting the "Charlottesville goose steppers". These are just some of the charges De La Torre levels at American evangelicals. His article opens with this paragraph:

Christianity has died in the hands of Evangelicals. Evangelicalism ceased being a religious faith tradition following Jesus’ teachings concerning justice for the betterment of humanity when it made a Faustian bargain for the sake of political influence. The beauty of the gospel message — of love, of peace and of fraternity — has been murdered by the ambitions of Trumpish flimflammers who have sold their souls for expediency. No greater proof is needed of the death of Christianity than the rush to defend a child molester in order to maintain a majority in the U.S. Senate.**

But Myers responds with this:

I wish Christianity were dying. It’s not. It’s merely reverting to its roots. The Christianity he’s pining for — a beautiful faith of “love, of peace and of fraternity” — only existed briefly in the minds of a tiny fraction of wishful thinkers. It’s as if he thinks that benign Christianity is the eternal truth of the religion, and that this recent controlling, selfish, faith of indignant sanctimony is a recent innovation.

Just go back to the 19th century. Christianity was used to justify colonialism, slavery, the extermination of Indians, manifest destiny (oh, man, Christianity is so tangled up in the very idea of manifest destiny), the whole European expansion. Christianity sailed into China aboard gunboats selling opium. Christian missions were planted in Africa to justify invasion. In North America, Christian schools were tools to destroy Indian culture. Yet now we’re supposed to pretend the bigotry and sleaziness of Roy Moore* are an aberration doing great harm to the reputation of the faith? Only if you’re shortsighted and have no appreciation of history at all.

If you insist on more recent examples, though, remember that it was the good Christians of the South who lynched black men for imagined or trivial slights against the propriety of Christian white women, or that even today the Southern Baptist Convention opposes gay rights. These are not exceptions. It’s built right into the bones of Christianity.

I think it’s wonderful that some Christians have struggled against the grain of Christian history to try to build a better, more egalitarian religion. I would wish that they could succeed. But let’s be honest here: you’re trying to do so on a foundation of patriarchal authoritarianism, with 1700+ years of persecution and corruption as a tradition. If you really want to get rid of the hatred and sectarianism and obsolete sexual mores, the first thing you have to dump is the Bible, and then you’re not Christian anymore.

You also have to admit that Roy Moore isn’t anti-Christian at all — he’s following the Bible with more fidelity than someone who accepts modern ideals of tolerance and pacifism and the acceptance of love in all its forms. You just have to recognize that Moore’s religion is a bad thing.

A lot of that is probably true, but not all of it.

However, let's recall at this juncture some of the things PZ has said about atheist culture: For example: The atheist "church" goers, The atheists of Rebeccagate,  The atheists of Rebeccagate again,  The atheist anti-feminists,  His irritation with atheists, The slymepit atheists who are a lot worse than Christains and who are the biggest assholes of them all,  The atheists with regressive social attitudes, scandals and bizarre metaphysics,  The depth of human inanity seen in some atheists, The gamergate atheists, PZ's disillusionment with atheist culture, and The atheist movement in danger of killing itself. 

Other atheists who are not exactly on PZ's list of all time greats are Richard Dawkins and the arguably libertarian and doctrinaire social Darwinists Ayn Rand and Matt Ridley. 

It looks as though one doesn't need to draw from Christian cultural roots in order to get a bad case of oppressive and corrupt authoritarianism: Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot and Kim Jong Un have presided over some of the worst cases of despotism and massacres of innocents ever***. Marx's atheistic and anti-free market philosophy has something to answer for there. Moreover, Neitzsche may have a bit of explaining to do as well. 

Lets face it PZ, we both of live in glass houses - actually, probably the same glass house and it's called "humanity"; or should that be "inhumanity"? Humanity is always arguing, always disagreeing and always falling out and unfortunately all too frequently resorting to some kind of duress, harassment and/or coercion in order to seal the case in their favour.  So, if we have to chuck stones at one another we had better make sure they are on target. 

We could rewrite PZ's blog post as follows

I wish atheism were dying. It’s not. It’s merely reverting to its roots. The atheism PZ is pining for — a beautiful faith of “love, of peace and of fraternity” — only exists in the minds of a tiny fraction of wishful thinkers. It’s as if he thinks that benign atheism is an eternal truth, and that this recent controlling, selfish, atheism of indignant belligerence is an aberration.

Just go back to the 20th century. Atheism was used to justify colonialism, slavery, the extermination of millions, manifest destiny (oh, man, Marxism is so tangled up in the very idea of manifest destiny), the whole Nazi, Soviet and Maoist expansion. Atheism sailed into China selling the opium of the masses - Marxist-Leninism. Marxist despots were planted in Africa to justify dictatorships. Yet now we’re supposed to pretend the bigotry and sleaziness of atheism is an aberration doing great harm to the reputation of the faith of atheism? Only if you’re shortsighted and have no appreciation of history at all.

If you insist on more recent examples, though, remember that it was the good atheists of the US who lynched feminists for imagined or trivial slights against the sexual rights of white male atheists, or that even today oppose gay rights. These are not exceptions. It’s built right into the bones of atheism.

I think it’s wonderful that some atheists have struggled against the grain of atheist history to try to build a better, more egalitarian world. I would wish that they could succeed. But let’s be honest here: you’re trying to do so on a foundation of patriarchal authoritarianism, with 100 years of persecution and corruption as a tradition, not to mention the spectre of social Darwinism. If you really want to get rid of the hatred and sectarianism and obsolete sexual mores, the first thing you have to dump is a nihilistic interpretation of Darwinism, but then you’re not atheist anymore.

You also have to admit that Hitler wasn't anti-atheist at all — he was following the logic of atheism with more fidelity than someone who accepts modern ideals of tolerance and pacifism and the acceptance of love in all its forms. You just have to recognize that atheism is a bad thing.

Well, to be frank that is not entirely fair. But then neither is it fair in its original form.

Footnotes
* More about Roy Moore can be found here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41417203

** Compare "emerging churchman" Rob Bell's statement that evangelical culture is disgusting. 

*** And the French revolution was not exactly a bed of roses.